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Toll Booth by the-red-terror
Name General Description
1, 2
Toll Booth v4
15000i
1500
General
Element:iron
Rarity:unique
Goldcost:1500
Wave lvl:45
Ele. lvl:8

Submission
By: the-red-terror
Date:2016-06-14 08:12:57
Status: PENDING
ID:1917
Last Update:2016-06-27 08:52:34
No Attack!
Description
This is a for-profit TD now, thanks

Abilities
Toll Route
Gives gold equal to the base bounty value from each passing creep and decreases its bounty granted by
100%

Level Bonus:
1 additional gold per level

Status:
PENDING: This tower is not yet accepted. Users comments to this tower:
100% swiped tooltip phrasing from Deemzul, not even sorry.

1, 2
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Discussion

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 Post subject: Toll Booth v4 (1917)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:12 am 
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Posts: 73
This is the discussion thread for the tower Toll Booth (1917)

Creator's comments for this tower:

Easy mode income to protect your unskilled butt with.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v1 (1917)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:16 am 
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Posts: 73
Claim all golds from every round, every time.
To do: get the buff system working. Currently these can chain, and kills will still reward their bounty. Intention is for -100% bounty reduction of passing creeps.
Also the gold gain noise is annoying as hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v1 (1917)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:31 pm 
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This would definitely fall in the unique category.


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 Post subject: Update to version v2!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:13 am 
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The tower has been updated to version v2!

Creator's reason for this update:

Changed rarity and price, still no luck on preventing chaining.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v2 (1917)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:53 am 
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Posts: 4524
Location: Australia
Love your variable naming!

Please explain how you'd like this ability work.
I'm guessing you want it to only collect gold once (won't work on subsequent inrange events for the same creep), after which you reduce the creep's bounty reward to zero. Yes?

Perhaps you could get away with not using buffs at all, but instead directly modifying the creep's mods.

What I'm thinking is this: when a creep comes in range, collect its bounty (scaled by its and this tower's bounty mods), then greatly reduce the creep's bounty mod (directly, without using buffs), so that it grants less gold on subsequent tolls and when it is killed.

Note that you cannot reduce the creep's bounty ratio to zero, since mod changes have exponentially decaying effect to prevent them going to negative or growing too high. Instead, you can just reduce it by a large amount each time it is tolled.

This would mean subsequent tolls and kills still grant bounty, just significantly less. This could be balanced by adjusting this tower's bounty ratio. You can then even give this tower a level bonus to bounty ratio instead of directly giving more gold per level.

Just some ideas to play with. Hopefully that's enough for you to go on to get it to work, but if you're adamant on tolling only once (or against anything else I've proposed) let us know and we can try to figure out a different approach.

_________________
Goldcost to waveLevel & elementLevel relationship
Incremental Testmap Stub & Tower Creation Map


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v2 (1917)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Exponential decay doesn't affect 'defense values' if I recall correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v2 (1917)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:02 pm 
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ah, i forget. guess you can bring it down to zero then.

also, an argument for keeping the bounty reduction as a buff could be to synergise with purge abilities.

_________________
Goldcost to waveLevel & elementLevel relationship
Incremental Testmap Stub & Tower Creation Map


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v2 (1917)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:51 am
Posts: 73
Idea was to be a crutch, pulling in all the bounty from each wave but losing out on potentially more from towers with +bounty. Newer players can start falling behind to a point they can't recover by missing out on a couple waves. This is the reason I didn't want extra ones pulling in mad bling, and why it doesn't have any way to level itself (give up a leveled tower for more $). Leveled follow-up towers would pull in the level bonus but nothing else, I don't think they would even make up their goldcost (side note, may want to lower the cost so it rolls earlier and doesn't start at such a debt, going off the library of Alexandria on this.)
I went with the buff simply to add the icon, figuring people could get confused when kills no longer make money, but I could accomplish the same with a more detailed tooltip (once I figure out the trigger for the effect!)


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 Post subject: Update to version v3!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:03 am 
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The tower has been updated to version v3!

Creator's reason for this update:

Everything works now, lowered range to avoid potential abuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v3 (1917)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:32 am 
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If you have settled on the implementation, you should rewrite the tooltip to reflect more precisely what the ability does: gives gold equal to the creep's base bounty value and decreases its bounty granted by 100%.

Other thoughts:
'Rich' creeps, if I recall correctly, have increased bounty granted (instead of increased bounty value), in which case this tower will leave them to give gold.

If you want to remove interaction with other stuff, even if a bit boring (emergent features are kind of limited in YouTD if you don't count bugs), you could add some creep.getProp_bountyGranted (don't remember the method name precisely) and remove bounty granted equal to that & give gold in proportion to that. Could even go as far as to add a onDeath thingy that decreases the bounty to granted zero (if bounty granted was somehow increased). Negative bounty most likely also just gives 0 gold, but somebody might want to create an ability that deals more damage the less bounty granted % a creep has, so you can't just give all creeps a crazy -500000% bounty granted.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v3 (1917)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:39 am 
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I'll fix up the tooltip, I'm happy with the way it works currently; The only bounty-altering effect that comes to mind is Bronzification (bronze dragon roost), and if someone is willing to commit multiple towers to pull in a little extra cash more power to them.
In the same line of thought, Wanted List fires its own effect regardless of bounty, and takes a slot that could be used for item find or damage.
Rich waves are filthy bourgeoisie and should be killed for their shinies.

Price is still a bit high for a 0-damage, 0-buffing tower (personally) so I'll drop it a bit in the edit. Also makes more sense for it to show up earlier in the game, money isn't really an issue later on.


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 Post subject: Update to version v4!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:52 am 
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The tower has been updated to version v4!

Creator's reason for this update:

100% swiped tooltip phrasing from Deemzul, not even sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v4 (1917)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:00 am 
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Tooltip's missing the range information (I'm the kind of player that wants exact info, so that I can learn to place the towers with just that info). Player needs to know how leniently they can place the tower, or how far they should put something to only apply on leaks (or if that's even possible).
Could also mention that it doesn't benefit from the tower's bounty received; might be something someone expects to happen.

Here's the most unambiguous tooltip I can come up with at this moment (a bit verbose maybe):
"When a creep enters 1000 range of this tower for the first time, the owner of this tower is given gold equal to the creep's base bounty value and the creep's bounty granted is decreased by 100%. This ability does not benefit from this tower's bounty received modifier."
"+1 additional gold given"


Continuation to the topic of interaction with other content:
I meant that content has to consider not only currently existing content, but possible content as well - to an extent. I also meant that one should sometimes ignore that consideration (to an extent) in order to improve intrestingness. I was pointing out possibilities against my own preference and interestingness just in case you wanted it to function as such. In this regard, it is fine as long as it's working as intended.


Also, why is there an 'else'?
else
call tower.getOwner().giveGold(lvl,tower.getUnit(),true,true)

If this is intended, it should also be reflected in the tooltip. 75 extra gold for every creep is a bit imba though (comes in range towers when placed perfectly can trigger up to three times without creep/tower displacing abilities). Even 25 extra gold for every mass creep is a bit heavy now that I think about it; Approximate average +225 gold every round.
Note that gold can be given as fractions as well; getting +0.1 ten times gives +1.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v4 (1917)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:26 am 
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Fair points! And a lot more thought involved for this tower than I would have expected :)

I'm comfortable re: the interactions with future content, my point earlier was that having additional bounty modifications outside of this requires an investment on the part of the player; anyone wishing to use this effect to fuel another ability has already dropped 6 food.

The else is in there to prevent the same tower pulling too much gold off a single creep, but still allow for further copies of this tower to have an action (instead of being a dead build).
The amount of additional gold does definitely need to be adjusted. I'm thinking an added percentage of the base bounty, instead of a flat amount? I could also modify the gold gain to factor in the tower's bounty gain, and use that as a level bonus.
I'll spend some time on it, and make sure the tooltip reflects it.

My mistake re: the range in the tooltip. I was using the tower's attack range, and not considering that it's not assumed that an ability and attack have the same ranges.
The current range of 400 is just enough to cover a single corner, moving it 2 units in either direction is enough to eliminate one side of a corner... unfortunately moving it 1 unit will currently create a notch in the area big enough to have it trigger twice.
Making the range larger causes the opposite problem, creating more spots for retriggering off the same creeps.


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 Post subject: Re: Toll Booth v4 (1917)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:59 am 
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The geometry of a rectangle and a circle with its origin inside a smaller rectangle inside the rectangle combine here for this funny stuff. You might be able to find a weird solution with my Excel aura thingy: http://www.eeve.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=10802, but I suspect the only solution is in extra huge range (which you probably don't want to use). Coding a complex solution is also entirely possible, but the inelegance I predict for that would be very disgusting.

Corner spots are valuable for this reason: It's a basic gameplay element. It adds +50% to typical comes-in-range abilities' value - but sometimes requires the tower to be placed awkwardly, possibly costing it some autoattacks.
Towers also compete for the corner spots: a player can place only so many towers in the perfect positions before they have to start replacing towers if they want the perfect spot. The very corner-corner spot is not that contested, since we don't have any 400 range content yet; but something has to be the first.


Indeed, a tower should have (at least some) effect regardless of how many of its kind exist --- even if the effect is mostly negated (like Green Dragon's multicrit aura is kind of useless except on the carry, but that's just because there's only a little bit of many-damage-towers oriented content).
It would be simplest if that little extra effect was balanced around multiple triggerings. There's also creep and tower teleportation that can cause even more triggerings.


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