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Should gekko create an Aeon of Strife map?
Yes 46%  46%  [ 7 ]
No 40%  40%  [ 6 ]
No opinion. 13%  13%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 15
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 Post subject: A New Small Project
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:57 am 
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Hey there, gekko. I just recently joined your forum after having played Castle Fight and Eeve TD and being impressed by them. It's good to see high quality maps are still being made for W3.

What tempted me to post this, though I know you already sink most of your time into Castle Fight, was seeing your smaller projects for download. I had a suggestion for a new small project, should you decide to take a break from Castle Fight after the newest version is released.

Have you ever heard of Aeon of Strife? It's an old Starcraft map which was popular back in the day. It's the map that inspired DotA and some of those hero siege maps. Having just played one of those recently, I was struck by how far the old AoS games had fallen. The hero siege maps always offer a ton of cheap tomes, and soon your character is hitting for 2000 damage a blow every millisecond, but you still lose. (Not to mention the hero siege maps are often of low quality design) DotA is fun, but it's developed into a highly competitive player v player game, which while very entertaining, is not AoS.

In case you never played it, Aeon of Strife basically had players choose heroes, and then you had to fight against a horde of enemies that flowed down three or four lanes. (It's been a while, hard to recall.) You fight, killed, gained money, and improved your character until you either got to the other side of the map and destroyed their base, or were overwhelmed.

A very simple concept, which is often the best kind. What was so fun about this game is that your character face overwhelming numbers of enemies, very weak enemies which you butcher, but there are so many that it's a constant struggle to stop the tide. Among these continuous spawns of weak creeps would be an occasionally more powerful enemy, and at set times a very powerful enemy would spawn which would require all the players leave their respective positions and work together to slay it. This forced teamwork enhanced the experience and added greatly to the tension as everyone got ready to fight a massively powerful creature shuffling down the line.

If you find yourself with some free time, or are looking to start a new project, I hope you would consider revitalizing a true to form Aeon of Strife map. It wouldn't be too much work, as it would mainly involve triggers to make enemies spawn, and then send them running down lanes. But it could be as complicated as you care to make it (Perhaps if a building is destroyed a builder spawns and then when going down the lane he tries to rebuild it?) The game also wouldn't require the strenuous balancing of other maps because it wouldn't be player vs player and so a few minor unbalances wouldn't ruin the game experience. Perhaps the most complicated thing about it would be making four unique heroes, but after seeing the extensive experience you have modding units from CF, this would be easy as well.

Consider this an appeal from an old Starcraft player looking to see some old school maps return to their former glory.

Since your fan base is also important, I'll make this a poll, though I expect there won't be much support for the map. Who knows, however, maybe there are other Starcraft veterans out there who remember the game in its former glory and not as the tome happy and slapped together hero sieges we see today.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Small Project
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:20 am 
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Talon wrote:
Have you ever heard of Aeon of Strife? It's an old Starcraft map which was popular back in the day. It's the map that inspired DotA and some of those hero siege maps. Having just played one of those recently, I was struck by how far the old AoS games had fallen. The hero siege maps always offer a ton of cheap tomes, and soon your character is hitting for 2000 damage a blow every millisecond, but you still lose. (Not to mention the hero siege maps are often of low quality design) DotA is fun, but it's developed into a highly competitive player v player game, which while very entertaining, is not AoS.


On the contrary, AoS map number is going higher and higher. Sadly, like you said the quality is pretty low.
Btw dota IS an AoS, but many people dont know what AoS is so you have to explain to them (i think gekko isnt one of them ;) )

Anyway
Yeah, the new version of castle fight requires a lot of time to balance things out, to remove bugs and all... if gekko has the time, this might work. But then again, he puts so much work into his current projects (eeve!TD, Castle Fight etc. ) i doubt he will have the time.

Anyway, id suport this idea (im pretty much a veteran of starcraft too ;) )

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:44 am 
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I am already working on something like that :). Well it is a bit different and I am not really working on it (just a few evenings when I had no nerves to make CF). I will see what I can do,

but right, I am working at the moment 8 hours a day (practical course for my studies) and have other things like CF 1.11 and some other things to do, so my time is really limited :).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:07 am 
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I understand you're busy, it's why I added all those qualifiers about free time first 8) . It's good to hear you're working on something similar occasionally. It would make me quite happy to see the AoS category of game get treated properly.

Oh, and kudos on Glaive masters. Just bumped across it on B.net today. Quite an intense experience, though a tad frustrating since I was playing on a touch pad.

Emperror,

You're quite right, there are a glut of AoS maps. That's what I meant by the hero sieges and Dota. DotA is of very high quality, but has evolved so far that it's nothing like an Aeon of Strife game anymore. (I tended to think of them as being player v creep primarily) And the hero siege maps... they're just of sickeningly poor quality.

My explanation of AoS was mostly because I like to ramble :) Plus I thought I'd summarize what I thought of as the core experience.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:16 am 
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Well.. i only have one question, if DotA isnt an AoS then what is it? Just curious i want to know if a new scenario type is invented

Anyway, you stumbled into a glaive master game on b.net? Thats a miracle! Hope i can find time to host it :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Lol,that map exists.
Im sure,it has a shit of ambientation (It was kinda like druggers) but im sure it was what you wanted,there was only one side of heroes and there were a really huge amount of enemies and some times a boss...and you had a mother I-dont-know-what...
Sure its what youre talking about.I have that map,but I really have tons of maps and I dont want to check them all,cause I dont remember the tittle...and I dont know how to make you dl those maps,xd


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:54 am 
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Location: Netherlands. You know, that small dot?
Sounds cool.

I've never seen this kinda map. Ofcourse the general idea of fighting the other's base, but not the stream of enemies we are thirsty of. :wink:

Sounds a bit like Lord of the Rings.

Not that is should be a clone or anything, but the strugle against masses of enemies. Sounds very cool to me, seriously.
Ofcourse there is the danger of lagging, but the map could be made that there is just barely not enough enemies to really lag. After all, with a steady stream of enemies there couldent be more as in CF that you just build up the numbers.

Fight as a real hero against a large, battering stream of enemies. Yeah! Sounds wicked :!:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:24 pm 
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or i just had another idea

Make a unique AoS

there are 2 factions with 6 players

3 of each faction's players build unit-spawning buildings and special buildings

the other 3 just use heros to fight


or simply - make a hybrid of Castle Fight and AoS

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:19 am 
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I probably shouldn't even keep posting here since gekko already said he's busy into the foreseeable future, but I can't help continuing with my fantasies for a new novel map :D

Emperror, that idea has a lot of merit. It would be pretty interesting to take the opposing side, having control of when of what units flood the lanes, what boss enemies spawn and where. Special buildings and unit spawns would need to be greatly nerfed compared to CF, since heroes should be able to butcher all enemies except bosses quickly, but the combinations of units could add some interesting twists. Also, the creep spawners could get some other things to do, like put money towards upgrading spawns with more hp, higher damage, slight chance of evasion, etc. Perhaps there could even be tiles, to borrow from the eeve concept, and building on them makes creeps spawn even faster.

If this concept were followed up, I would suggest that every time a unit finished building it was actually a "bundle". This meaning, 1 archer completes building, and 3 or 4 appear. In this way it wouldn't require a slew of buildings to get a moderate swarm of enemies.

I would also suggest heroes not level up, or they cap at 10. But this isn't to say they stop gaining skills, before anyone starts getting upset at the limitation. Instead skills are bought, similar to The Great Strategy. Say every time an enemy boss is defeated, heroes gain 1 wood. With this they buy a skill, say an improved fireball. By not infinitely leveling up, the game could be balanced easier and the earliest creep spawns aren't made obsolete. Wood could be spent on skills, on attack or armor, or perhaps even on the hero side spawns. (There should be a cap on damage, attack speed and armor upgrades, otherwise this becomes like tomes) This wealth of choices would keep things unique and give players freedom for how they progress.

The only problem with having players take the role of creepspawners, is that it creates a lot more balance issues for making. With all the players on one side, balance isn't as essential, but in PvP game everything must be balanced perfectly or a flaw will be abused.

I'll stop there. I could keep going. I love conceptual work for games, it makes me wish I had some actual computer know-how so I could create these games.[/i]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:10 pm 
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Ive also thought about introducing heros you can control in CF,but it would destroy the balance.
I even thought about tomes and buildings costing separate,so you couldnt do only one thing...but it would be very dificult to balance and it hasnt nothing to do with CF concept...but if you like the idea I could put here the details and make it an experimental mode


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:34 pm 
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Kinda reviving an old post, but what you guys are talking about sounds a lot like EotA. It played somewhat like DotA, but players could build creep spawning buildings. It was really well made, but the guy that was making it stopped development on it.


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